Podcast - Jockey Welfare and Career Transitions in Thoroughbred Racing

Kayla Pragid: Welcome to today's episode of "The Tack Room," where we will explore the impact, career path and ultimate retirement of jockeys and horse racing. I am so blessed to be your host, Kayla Pragid, chair of the equine team here at Holland & Knight, I am thrilled to have with us Ramón Dominguez and Professor Gabrielle Kuenzli, who are both guiding lights for jockeys and horse racing and will help us unpack the complexities of racing issues that so often impact jockeys both professionally and personally.

Starting with Ramón Dominguez, he is a retired Venezuelan-born jockey and a National Racing Hall of Fame inductee whose career in American thoroughbred racing was nothing short of extraordinary, in my opinion. He is a three-time Eclipse Award winner for Outstanding Jockey, a three-time Breeders' Cup champion and, in 2012, he set the all-time single-season earnings record for a jockey. Unfortunately and very tragically, his career was cut short in 2013 following a tragic brain injury sustained on the track. A reality that I think has really made Ramón so passionate and such an incredible advocate for jockey welfare and a champion of the Permanent Disabled Jockeys Fund, another nonprofit he started.

Our next guest is Professor Gabrielle Kuenzli from the University of South Carolina, whose perspective I think will help us really unpack the legal and practical realities affecting jockeys in horse racing and specifically Latino jockeys. Professor Kuenzli brings an academic lens to the issues we're discussing today, including work conditions, career transitions, personal and professional challenges and really the impact that the Latino community has had on jockeys and horse racing holistically.

Ramón and Gabi, welcome to "The Tack Room." We are so glad to have you here and to hear all of the great insight you're going to give us today. So I want to start, maybe Ramón, we'll start with you, but I want to know if you can tell our listeners, how did you get into horse racing? How did you become a jockey? What is your background?

Ramón Dominguez: First and foremost, thank you so much for having us on your podcast. As you mentioned, I'm from Venezuela, and nobody in my family had anything to do with horses. My dad, however, had worked for the racetrack regarding the betting aspect. Back in the days, there was a machine that people would go and bet. It was like a pick six game. It was the last six races of the weekend. And my dad, part of his job was that he had to physically take this machine to the racetrack. So I was a young teenager, 13 years old or so, and I went with him to the racetrack. And this was love at first sight. When I watched that race, I just knew right then and there that that's a career that I wanted to pursue. I wanted become a jockey. I was just in love with the profession, seeing the horses go by, listening to the sound of hooves on the ground, the colors of the jockey silks, the jockeys low on their shoulders, it was just magic. And that became an obsession for me. And that's how I knew in the moment that I wanted to become a jockey one day.

Kayla Pragid: It is so addictive, isn't it, Ramón? I mean, love at first sight is a good way to explain it. And Gabi, tell us how you got involved in Latino jockey's impact in horse racing and your studies in that regard.

Gabrielle Kuenzli: Thanks so much for having us on your podcast, Kayla. It's wonderful to be here and thank you for the question. You know, I rode when I was young. I also came from a family that didn't really care about horses at all or horse racing. And then I went out and I got a Ph.D. at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in Latin American history and began to work on other topics. Spent a lot of time in Latin America. I speak six different languages, including Quechua, one of the indigenous languages of Bolivia. But racing is a tricky one, isn't it? Because if you've ever taken an interest, it tends to suck you back in. You never are really free of it. It just calls its people home. And I don't even know how I started watching thoroughbred racing again. And here's what I realized that I didn't realize when I was much younger, is that as I watched race after race, big races like Breeders' Cup, Kentucky Derby, right? Or everyday allowance made in special weight claiming that again and again and again, Latino jockeys as a collective, if you will, from different countries, were among the winningest jockeys. And I thought to myself, wow, why does nobody talk about this? What does this mean in terms of the image of the Latino in the United States and within the industry of horse racing? And that's sort of how I began.

The amazing part to me is that this question hasn't really been asked. There's been a lot more effort expended on looking at Latinos as labor, as hot walkers, as grooms, super important jobs. But again, we also know the least well-paid jobs within the industry. And I began to say to myself, why is there a disconnect between this sort of praise for Latinos with horses and a disconnect with Ramón Dominguez, Irad Ortiz, Fausto Gutierrez? I mean, we've got so many people at the top of the game as owners, as trainers, as jockeys, and yet they're constantly pigeonholed for their ultra-important yet significantly much-less-paid role as laborers, those who spend all the time with horses. I began to look into this and it took me in a variety of different directions. Everything from having spent now three months at the Puerto Rican jockey school, getting up with them at 5:30 in the morning every day, watching the training and understanding what it takes to be a jockey. Old magazines both from Latin America and the U.S., newspapers. And what you figure out is that Latinos aren't here as your laborers, really, as an industry that people associate with the United States. Racing in Latin America is as old as a tradition with illustrious racetracks like we have in the United States. And in that sense, it's a shared tradition throughout the Americas. I just finished co-curating the exhibit at Keeneland on the very first-ever bilingual exhibit and the first exhibit on Latinos in horse racing at Keeneland. I've worked with the Aiken [Thoroughbred] Racing Hall of Fame & Museum in Aiken, South Carolina. We've done five exhibits on different facets of Latinos in racing. And I'm about to finish my book for Kentucky University Press called Setting the Record. And it deals with Cañonero II, the Venezuelan-trained, Kentucky-bred horse who won the '71 Derby and Preakness. And it looks at the deep roots of Latino thoroughbred horse racing.

Kayla Pragid: It sounds like you really dove into the real impact that Latinos have had. And really, it sounds like you're shining a light on how impactful they are at the highest levels, not just all moderate and lower levels as far as compensation. And so, Ramón, that brings me to my next question. Most fans probably think jockeys operate similar to other athletes, for example, in the National Football League or the National Basketball Association, where they're professional athletes, they have contracts with their team and they get paid, rain or shine, whether they sit the bench or whether they play. But I don't think a lot of people really understand jockeys are paid completely differently than all those professional team athletes in the sense that they are independent contractors, they don't have a union, they don't have a guaranteed contract for compensation if they're injured. So what, from your perspective, what challenges do you think the independent contractor status for jockeys or this lack of union representation has on them both professionally and financially?

Ramón Dominguez: Yes, as you were mentioning, whether it is a basketball, NFL or American football league, these athletes, number one, start their career and they also are able to finish their formal education, have a degree in college, where the jockeys start very young and we had to choose between continue going to school or developing our skills for this new profession, being a jockey. So therefore you need to be completely focused on continuing to learn more and more to become the best jockey possible. And all throughout the whole journey, even when you become a top jockey, you are always a self-employee. You are an independent contractor. There are no contracts that you have with a league or with something that will guarantee that you're going to get paid, whether you get hurt or you get sick. No. If you don't ride, you don't get paid. And if you ride and you don't win, the amount of money that you can earn is minimal. We have a losing amount fee, and this varies from racetrack to racetrack. Currently, that has gone up, but it's as much as perhaps $120 per month. But in some of the racetracks where the money or the prices are lower, some of these guys may be making $50, $60 per month. So you must win. You must finish in the morning in order to — when I say finish in morning, in the top three, top four — in order make a living. And yes, there are no really guarantees here unlike in other sports, and you need to really just be grinding it every day. And one of the things is that there is also no downtime. For jockeys, even if you are participating primarily in a racetrack in a state where they have a season, when the season comes to an end, you need to migrate. You need to go elsewhere because you need to ride year-round and you will be missing all of the holidays because those are the days that the important races take place and people go to the racetracks because they're off work. So it is extremely demanding. We love the profession, but at the same time, it comes with a big sacrifice, to say the least.

Kayla Pragid: A huge sacrifice, and not only that, but just the not knowing when you're going to get paid, if you're going to get paid and a lot of things outside of your control. Unlike a lot of sports where you control your health, your physical fitness, you're relying on an animal, and oftentimes animals you don't own, right? And so you're not necessarily there with the animal every single day if you're racing 10 different horses in a particular day. So what a difference. Gabi, I know you've written that the racetrack can and has served in some respects as a public platform where Latino athletes can claim space, so to speak, in American culture. I think that's when I read one of your past research works. That was at least my interpretation. How have Latino jockeys used, in your opinion, their visibility and their success in racing to shape perceptions about Latinos in American society and sports?

Gabrielle Kuenzli: I think if you've gone to a racetrack, I mean, people think of thoroughbred horse racing, they like to call it the oldest organized sport in the United States, right? So it has a storied past. They associate it with the Vanderbilt family, the Phipps family, right, the Whitneys, all these big illustrious names. And yet if you look at a racetrack, and I don't mean recently, I mean throughout the 20th century, who do you have in the winner's circle? You've got in the winner's circle, Latinos in a privileged position, higher up than everyone else if they are the jockey, demonstrating their skill, their excellence. I like to look at horse racing as a source to talk about Latino excellence rather than talking only about labor exploitation, which also exists in horse racing. But what I'm arguing is not don't talk about labor exploitation, but don't truncate the narrative, right? We've seen Latinos, I have a whole folder on philanthropy. A lot of these jockeys give back, and one of the most visible cases was actually the case of Victor Espinoza, the first Latino to win the Triple Crown. Not just since he started winning big races like the Triple Crown, he'd always donated [some] of his percentage of the purse to City of Hope Cancer Research Center. And when they asked him, they said, Victor, why do you donate money to City of Hope? Do you have someone with cancer? Are you a cancer survivor? And he said, no. He said, I have excellent health, I can't imagine not having excellent health, and so I contribute to people in need. And so what people don't realize too is that, while many times Latino jockeys are branded [as] immigrants, outsiders, look, they're helping fund cancer research in the United States of their own volition. They are contributing to improvements within U.S. society. Many of them also lend their time and their resources to their home countries. It's not an either/or, right? A lot of the jockeys who came out of the Escuela Vocacional Hípica in Puerto Rico will send pants back for the jockeys, boots for the jockeys, riding crops, they'll come and give talks. Sometimes they'll discreetly fund someone who's struggling to finish their course of study because of financial reasons. And so these are protagonists, right? Jockeys support across the Americas in many cases and contribute to society and to societal well-being in the United States as well as in Latin America. We need to look at Latinos in the United States as successful, as philanthropists, as people who give back and people who shape the existing society.

Kayla Pragid: And I'm sure the winners of the Kentucky Derby, the two brothers, also helped shine, I think, in a really positive light, how impactful Latino jockeys have been and continue to be, like you said, not just at big races, but the biggest races in the country. Ramón, I want to switch gears a little bit and talk to you a little about your personal career. I mentioned in the introduction that your career ended incredibly tragically with an accident that rendered you unable to continue being a jockey despite your incredible career and accomplishments. Can you take us into that reality and talk to the listeners about what did that aftermath look like? Physically, financially, professionally, what does it mean both for you when you got injured and also for other jockeys when they get injured? What does that look like?

Ramón Dominguez: My injury came at a time when prior to the injury, the year before I got hurt in January of 2013, and in 2012 I finished, I'm on the top in the standings in the nation only by wins, by earnings. So I was at the highest point of my career to then really getting the rock pulled from underneath of me. So as you can imagine, it is something that comes along with a little bit of difficulty, just coming to terms that I'm no longer going to continue riding horses and facing what I always describe — which is really the best way to put it — it's a great imperial where you are separated from this identity that although it is wrongfully created, but at the same time, I couldn't help to be identified with Ramón the Jockey. So with time and the support of family and friends, I was able to really turn the page and embrace the now and embrace the future. But the reality is I did very well. I was privileged to do extremely well, both in terms of wins and also financially. But then when that day comes to not run anymore, there are limited options for the jockey. Going back to the beginning of our conversation, the fact that we have very limited formal education, I mean, in my case, I finished high school and that is, on average, the farthest that anyone goes when it comes to being a jockey. There are few that maybe pursue a career or education, like to go to college, but so I felt like it was limited. OK, what options do I have? So that's something that definitely jockeys will face because although there are a lot of options within the sport, the truth is that many of these options are not really too appealing. And it's just something that we have devoted all of our time and love for the profession that really, to do something different, it comes very difficult at times because you have to sort of retrain yourself and now do something that is, even if it is with the horses, it's a totally different profession. So there are no guarantees here, unlike other athletes that perhaps, even if they are inducted in the Hall of Fame, like it is in my case, I believe that some of these other athletes had a payment that they will receive some type of income. That's not the case with the jockeys. So you go from making, in some cases, good money like I was, to really making nothing. So there is a huge level of uncertainty, and you have to just reinvent yourself.

Kayla Pragid: And how, Ramón, does the Permanently Disabled Jockeys Fund play into helping or assisting jockeys who are disabled while working?

Ramón Dominguez: Yes, the Permanently Disabled Jockeys Fund is an organization that currently they support, I want to say, around 60 jockeys who have been permanently disabled. Some of these guys have had brain injuries, but they are really not able to function correctly. They need assistance. Some of them may be disabled when they are just paralyzed and may be in a wheelchair, so therefore their mobility is limited. So this is an organization that doesn't count any guaranteed funding. The funding comes from donations. It comes from perhaps some channels that have been able to be open within the racing industry that some money is being supported, but there is not a whole lot of money. They are always looking to increase the resources to ideally create an endowment and be able to support the jockeys even greater than they do now. So these jockeys get a stipend or a monthly payment that is minimal, but they are so appreciative of getting something because some of them, that's all they get. So it is a crucial part of the life of these jockeys who have been permanently disabled. And it's something that really came up or was created in 2006. So it's relatively new. But once the jockey is qualified by qualifications, there is a third party that is able to determine whether the person really meets the medical criteria to take advantage of these benefits and therefore they start getting this monthly payment. But it's something that has been improved over the years, but there is still definitely room to increase this stipend to provide more support to these jockeys.

Kayla Pragid: That's an amazing fund, especially like you guys said, is that, you know, you're only getting paid when you're riding. And obviously, if you're injured or permanently disabled, you are not riding. So your income just, the spigot completely stops. So Ramón and Gabi, I know you both have a not-for-profit that also interacts with jockeys. So I'd love for you guys to tell the listeners about the entity organization, its mission, what it helps jockeys with and how the listeners might be able to contribute either on social media or financially to this organization that you all have that is really helping jockeys.

Ramón Dominguez: Yes, I'll open up by telling you about the organization and how and why it was created. And I'll let Gabi tell you a little more insight on the actual support that we're offering the jockeys through the organization. So it is called Jockeys' Guild Education Foundation. It is a not-for-profit organization, an idea that came from Craig Bernick. He is the owner of Glen Hill Farms, and him and his family through The Lavin Family Foundation have been extremely good with many different groups in society. They identify groups that need support. One of their programs is they support 51 schools in Chicago, which is their home base, to provide all of the necessary tools that the students get: scholarship, books, pencils, you name it. They provide this for [more than 50] schools. And Craig realized that jockeys had this unique predicament that again, they started a profession when they're young teenagers. We are really young. Some of us start when we're 13, 14 years old. And because of this lack of education in terms of going to school, when our days as a jockey come to an end, we found ourself asking, OK, now what? So he wanted to support by providing scholarships for the jockeys who are permanently disabled, retired, inactive, who are Jockeys' Guild members. And he came in collaboration and started doing this with the Jockeys' Guild. And we are very happy because we're ready to start taking applications for the jockeys. But I'll let Gabi expand on actually the services that we're offering.

Gabrielle Kuenzli: Yeah, no, thanks, Ramón. What we're doing is, so you can do a variety of things. And thanks to Glen Hill Farm and Craig Bernick for setting this up. Because, for example, there's another organization in the U.K., it's called JETS, the Jockey Education & Training Scheme, right? And we've spoken with them, but this is funded by the British Horse Racing Authority. OK, we don't have anything like that in the United States to organize on a national level opportunities for jockeys. So we're very grateful to Craig Bernick for seeing this need. What we do then, you can either enhance your current career, OK? Let's say you are riding, you're going to be riding a lot in Japan and you need to learn some Japanese. We can find classes for you and fund them up to $5,000 for you to learn Japanese. If you always wanted to take a nutrition class while you're riding, we can find you a nutrition class. And if you're riding and your time's limited, it can be online. If you want English classes, we could do that. It all depends according to your needs. So it can enhance riders' careers while they're riding, or as you're beginning to think, OK, look, I don't want to be 60 years old and galloping horses because there's a lot of wear and tear on the body. If you realize that you start having kids and you're moving around a lot and you're not seeing them and you begin to think about a second career, right? We can help you begin those studies.

Now, we can fund up to $5,000 a year. And some of the issues that come up are, for example, computer skills. Taking a class online is not child's play. How do you use big platforms like Blackboard, right? We're going to also offer an introductory course, and I'll talk about that in a minute, for you to sort of get up to speed with reading comprehension. Computer skills, basic things that you need to return to the classroom, right? And that course we're developing through Bluegrass Community and Technical College, through their Workforce Solutions Department in conjunction with Dixie Kendall, who's the head of the Equine Studies Department. So if you're like, my God, I haven't been in a classroom in 18 years, we can help you with that. Now, on the other hand, if you feel like, yeah, I'm ready to go, we're going to match you with your program of choice, all right? So I'm reaching out to schools really across the country, finding places, especially at community colleges, because that makes our $5,000 go farther. And because a lot of our jockeys want to do something in equine studies or the trades, OK? Jockeys are immensely clever people. And I could give you a thousand examples there, including Ramón Dominguez, who is right here with us. I mean, he invented a riding crop that was more humane for the horse and equally effective at incentivizing the horse. He's had his own television program. He's been a guest announcer for big races. I mean, jockeys are smart people with so much to offer. The question is only really how to get that certificate, like the riding license you needed when you became a jockey. And that's what we can help you do. Ramón and I have been going around, not just on one hand, we had people fill out surveys — which was useful, and I thank all the room representatives at the various racetracks who helped us with that — but we go around to the racetrack and talk to people. Because imagine, Kayla, if I said to you, hey, you're not going to podcast anymore. What would you like to do for a living? I mean, that's a big daunting question.

Kayla Pragid: Yeah, that's a hard question for sure, especially when you're not thinking about it.

Gabrielle Kuenzli: Exactly. And if you do think about it, it implies that you won't be riding. I mean, there's mental baggage with it too, right? There's a loss of identity, as Ramón pointed out earlier, and there's a question of how do I even do that. I mean, horse racing has a program called Amplify that Annise Montplaisir set up, which at least helps people who want to get into the industry get into the industry. We didn't have anything set up for people to leave the industry and successfully find another career. And that's what we're in the process of doing. It's been great talking with the jockeys. Sometimes people know exactly what they want to do. And sometimes they tell you, I want to explore other careers, I don't know what they are. And so then we sit there and talk to them. We talk to them not just like, well, you could do A, B or C. We say, OK, what did your family do? Was that interesting to you? Did you ever study anything else? And since I've lived in Latin America for six years and lived in Europe and Latin America, I'm familiar with different professions, different degrees, different possibilities and career track patterns. And so that's what we do. And it's been, I think, one of the greatest parts of this job, is having the opportunity to have these conversations with the jockeys themselves. It's been a real privilege.

Kayla Pragid: That makes perfect sense. I mean, in order to understand how to help them, you really need to understand what drives them, what motivates them, where they come from, and meet them at that spot so you can help them. And so that brings me, I think, to the last segment, which is, I'll start with you, Ramón. If you could go back and you could talk to your younger self, your 13-year-old self, maybe your 15-year-old self when you first got to the racetrack, or maybe even right when you became disabled, when you were in not a great place, both probably mentally and physically, what's one piece of advice you might give to a jockey, either coming up brand new, or someone who has experienced a setback in their career like a disability, or just any type of setback, what advice would you give that person to either help them find resources to help them get in the right mental state or anything that would just help them get back on the right track.

Ramón Dominguez: It is great to live in the moment and to aspire to be the greatest at your profession. And that should never change. And although some people may see this as a negative perspective, it is reality. In terms of a jockey, to really be aware that it is a very risky profession. And therefore, try to protect themselves as much as they can with having a disability insurance, because there's this confusion when you talk to the average person who do not know much about insurances in general. They say all the jockeys that they don't have a lot of insurance. And typically people think of health insurance. Health insurance is one thing. You can go and buy a health insurance policy. What we're talking about here is in the event that you get hurt, if you get hurt and you're out for three months, six months, well, you should have a policy that really covers you and you have a temporary disability where your expenses are paid for and you can buy that depending on what your expenses are. But also if, God forbid, you get hurt where you cannot ride any longer, wonderful. It will be amazing and important to have something that will give you a good lump sum that can, if anything, push you and give you a good space or good frame of time that you can be safe, you can have the ability to now process, OK, how am I going to plan for this second part of my life? And you don't have to worry simultaneously about where or how am I going to pay my rent? So those are insurances that exist. And with the nature of how risky the profession that a jockey is, they definitely should have disability insurance in place.

Kayla Pragid: I think that's great advice and very practical advice, I think, from someone who's dealt with that. And then, Gabi, if there's anything you can think of based on all your work with jockeys and dealing with them needing these classes that your not-for-profit is assisting with, what's one piece of advice you would give jockeys who are young, getting ready to start their career, that could help them ensure that they're successful, both mentally and physically and perhaps financially throughout their career.

Gabrielle Kuenzli: You know, my piece of advice at this point would be just call us. Because I think Ramón and I both love most working with the jockeys. We don't aspire to be an administrative top-heavy career in name alone. We really want to make a difference within the industry and lead by example. And know that like, look, at the Puerto Rican jockey school, you cannot leave if you do not complete your high school degree, OK? This isn't a new concept. In the U.K., these conversations with their organization, whose acronym is JETS, begin the day you get your license. Whether it's for jockey career enhancement or for thinking about a second career, these are conversations that because of the nature of the profession aren't taboo and should be considered. It doesn't mean you're not committed to riding. It doesn't mean that you're not going to be a good rider. It's just part of it. And we would love to talk to you.

Kayla Pragid: And Gabi, if you can just say the name for our listeners again of your organization and what's the best way for any jockeys listening to this podcast to get ahold of you? Is that via email, phone, how would they reach out to you?

Gabrielle Kuenzli: It's the Jockeys' Guild Education Foundation, and its abbreviation is J-G-E-F. And Ramón, is the website jgef.org?

Ramón Dominguez: That's correct. Yes. And in there, they will find also an email, but if not, they can reach out to me via personal email for this organization, which is my first name, Ramón@jgef.org. And most jockeys have my phone number and if not, all it takes is to ask one of their peers and they'll find it if they want to talk to me personally or to Gabi. But yes, once again, the email will be Ramón@jgef.org and the name of the organization, Jockeys' Guild Education Foundation, the website is jgef.org and in there they can find a lot of information that will inform them, excuse the redundance, about many different aspects of this, the program, what we're offering and how they can get support.

Gabrielle Kuenzli: I think one of the wonderful things about having Ramón as head of this organization is that they have a common ground. Ramón knows what they're talking about. I don't know if people realize it, but a lot of jockeys call him while they're riding. They say, hey, could you watch this race with me? Give me advice. Like he's constantly shaping those who are riding currently. He's shaping the field of horse racing. And so because he maintains such an active dialogue and role with jockeys in both Spanish and English, language too is not a barrier. You can call in Spanish. Nobody minds at all. The point is that they can begin from a very different starting point. I can't think of a better person to head this organization for it to be successful than Ramón Dominguez. It's very, very important. Jockeys respond differently. They open up faster. They make references to things that they don't feel they have to explain to someone who isn't race riding. And they usually enjoy the conversation.

Kayla Pragid: I can only imagine because the first time I met Ramón, he was so welcoming and open arms and he talked to me. We met at the Derby actually in 2026, just a few months ago, and he's just such a beacon of light and energy and kindness. And so obviously encourage everyone to reach out if you want to be a jockey, you're interested in being a jockey, know someone and, of course, anybody can reach out to me and I'm always able to connect you with either Gabi or Ramón too. So I cannot thank you both enough for being on the podcast. I think that so many people don't understand how jockeys come up, what they deal with, how they get in and out of the profession. And I think this podcast has been so enlightening on just their journey, their path and how as a society, we can support jockeys through the whole racing and understand what they go through and really be proud of them, not just the horses, when the horses win. Because obviously it takes a lot of talent in both aspects. So thank you so much for joining us. We couldn't be more happy to have you all and privileged to have you, and I hope that our listeners learn something new today." This is Kayla, Gabi and Ramón signing off.